I can NOT believe we have to have this conversation again.

[polimicks]

Ok, in light of the whole Kevin Smith debacle, as well as a little tiff I got involved with on Pandagon, I would like to say something.

Ahem.

Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against better diets (as in way of eating as a whole) for everyone, including increasing access to healthier and less processed foods.

Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against exercise, or that one thinks kids getting exercise is a bad thing.

Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that I think you need to find me fuckable, or even likable. I probably don't like you, either.

What Fat Acceptance means is that you have to treat me like a human being, with courtesy and observing the bounds of civil interaction. That's it.

No one in Fat Acceptance land is advocating that everyone sit on their ass in front of the tv and mainline lard and cornstarch, washing it down with Jolt cola.

No one in Fat Acceptance land says kids shouldn't go outside and play.

NO ONE. Hear that, douchefucking assheads?

What people in Fat Acceptance land are saying is that YOU don't know why someone is fat just by looking at them. You don't. You don't know if they're on meds, if they fucked up their joints running triathalons and hold a world record from before their joints went south, or if they really do mainline jelly bellies while snorting pure confectioner's sugar, and throwing darts at pictures of that asshole Jillian Michaels. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

So, do me a favor and quit pretending you do. Ok, Karnack?

And while we're at it, if airlines want to throw fat people off for impinging on other passengers' space, and comfort, I have an additional list:
People who wear cheap perfume, and too much of it (guys, too)
Men who sprawl and take up all your leg room
People who won't shut the fuck up about their sports team/children/religion/surgery/politics
Screaming children
People with headphones so loud I can hear them over my own.
Seatkickers
People who lay their seat back without asking you if it's ok and crush you and your laptop

Well, none of that is a risk to safety, you say snidely... fat people could get stuck... Oh, spare me. I have yet to get stuck anywhere and I have a huge fat ass.

But the perfume people are a risk to safety. I happen to be incredibly allergic to a lot of perfumes, as in it starts with sneezing and watery eyes, then moves on to severe asthma attacks. If I can't get to my inhaler because some asshole has his seat down in front of me and the guy next to me is sprawled into my space... THEN it is a safety fucking issue and a whole lot more likely to cause issues than my fat would in the unlikely event we were to plummet to earth like a fucking stone. Got that?

So, here's the deal. You pretend you think we're people, and I'll pretend that you guys who sit with your legs all splayed really "need" to.* *wink wink*

Oh, and I have another request. If my fat ass is out there working out, walking, you know all that shit you guys keep telling me I need to do, shut the fuck up. If the goal were really to get us exercising, then my sister wouldn't have had that one asshead follow her around at the gym and tell her she didn't belong there every time she went. I also wouldn't have had to drop a free weight on the foot of some asshole who called me a whale (fat people, we're so weak and clumsy, you know).

There are worse things in life than you having to see or even, heavens forfend, brush up against my fat. Like missing your mother's dying moments as nearly happened with Kate Harding's sister, or not being able to go to a friend or family member's wedding, or being humiliated in front of a plane load of people.

Trust me, fat shaming doesn't work. If it did, we'd all be skinny. But it doesn't. And you know what? It doesn't cost you shit to be polite.

Besides, if sitting next to fat me really is a problem, next time YOU volunteer to sit between the screaming toddler and the evangelical.




*Someone somewhere referred to "Phantom Gigantic Schlong Syndrome," which does not happen only on planes, but also on buses, and pisses me off there, too.

Comments

[literateshrew.livejournal.com]

This is beautiful. You put it so succinctly.

I have long wanted to have something I can point to when people have these FA FAIL moments. And now I do.

Mind if I link? A good majority of my internet friends are good people, so it shouldn't bring the trolls, but you never know.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Feel free.

[icprncs.livejournal.com]

One of the things I like exploding people's heads with is the fact that embracing FA made it *easier* for me to exercise. Before, exercise was always this horrible, dreary thing I "had" to do so that I'd be "thin," and if I didn't get "thin" I was failing, which made me not want to exercise. Once I accepted fat as okay, exercise became a lot more enjoyable, because it's something I do to feel better and find enjoyment in movement and how my body works, rather than an obligation I dread. I can enjoy exercise on its own terms now, and that makes me more likely to do it. I would never say "people don't have to exercise" simply because I happen to be fat--exercise is good! But I would also never assume that I have any idea what anybody's level of exercise, fitness, or health is based solely on what they look like, or that I get to determine how much exercise they "ought" to be getting.

(I also think a lot more people, of any size, would exercise if we could get away from the cultural idea that the only "valid" exercise is an hour or more a day on hamster-wheel-like machines [and that can be expensive to gain access to and therefore unavailable to many], rather than stressing the idea of it as any activity that engages in physical movement for a length of time and can be something you really enjoy doing. That's a somewhat separate rant, though.)

[rocza.livejournal.com]

No one in Fat Acceptance land is advocating that everyone sit on their ass in front of the tv and mainline lard and cornstarch, washing it down with Jolt cola.
Actually, I hate to break it to you, but there are people out there who are saying this (and also say things like it's okay for a 6 year old to weigh 100lbs). It's the same thing in any movement - the loudest voices get the attention. The problem is, these loud voices do make others look bad.

(Yes, I'd get links, but right now I'm in the middle of trying not to throw things at the ableists in my LJ. One battle at a time.)

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

I have never seen anyone say this. What I have seen people say is that regardless of how someone got fat, they should be treated with the same courtesy as everyone else, and that as adults, they should be allowed to make their own choices, good or bad.

I have not seen anyone advocate that six year olds should weigh 100lbs, but I have seen people say that parents whose children do weigh that much should not be charged with child abuse. These are not the same things.

[rocza.livejournal.com]

I left fatshionista for a reason. This was it: they were saying it was perfectly fine for a 6 year old to weigh 100lbs. They were also saying that if someone wanted to eat themselves fat as can be, it's perfectly fine - it was verging on feeder-fetish, and very creepy.

Unfortunately, I have seen quite a few people who are affiliated with fats/The Rotund group advocate this very unhealthy position. *shrug* I distanced myself from all of them for this very particular reason.

[sarmonster.livejournal.com]

I would venture it was because maybe THEY weighed 100 lbs when they were 6.

[rocza.livejournal.com]

I should say, btw, that I don't disagree with your overall point. Airlines need a better way to handle customers that don't fit into a single seat (hell, I don't because of my height - so the airlines get extra money out of me, because I will always, always upgrade to sit in the plus/business section). But at the same time, I think that the rights of other passengers have to be taken into account, too. No one should be made uncomfortable - either because they're having to share space with a stranger, or because people are staring because of their size.

Unfortunately, I haven't heard of any suggestions from anyone taking any position in this debate on a viable method for the airlines to adopt. (And viability is, sadly, an issue - the airlines are barely keeping planes in the air.)

[scarlett-heartt.livejournal.com]

If a consenting adult wants to eat themself fat as can be, what's it to you? Why do you care? Isn't it their choice?

[faevii.livejournal.com]

I came here from Fat Lot of Good and would like to say that this is one of the best posts I have ever seen on this particular topic. You've managed to say everything that needed to be said without getting into any of the details that usually cause the most confusion among people who are new to FA, meaning I have no idea how anybody could possibly disagree with this. Thanks!

(Now the question is, will anybody read it?)

[fresafresca.livejournal.com]

Well it depends on what your definition of "o.k." is. Granted, I have not seen the specific threads you are pointing to, but I have seen similar conversation throughout F.A. websites. In my experience when posters have said that childhood fatness is "o.k." it means that such children should be treated with respect and dignity accorded to any other human on this earth, regardless of weight. Essentially, I have seen the argument that people need to stop assigning moral worth to food and exercise habits and bodily size. In this context "o.k." means that a child shouldn't be treated like crap, because they are fat, and they shouldn't be treated like crap no matter what the reasons are as to how they got to be fat.

IMHO if a child is fat, I would think this might be time for the parent to maybe get curious and interested in why this is happening, but definitely not go the condeming, moralizing route. Fatness is a complex interplay between environment and genetics.
Browbeating a child and telling them to "just stop" doing whatever it is that a parent thinks that they are doing which is supposedly "making them fat" is unhelpful at best, and mentally damaging at worst.

[(Anonymous)]

Love it, and the honesty I wish everyone could hear this message. REminds me of a mag-book I have read called "Fat-so!" by Judith Wann (I believe) it is really great- I recommend it!

[hotchka41.livejournal.com]

As with fat adults, you have no idea why a 6 year-old is fat simply by looking at them. And if you're not that child's parent or legal guardian it's none of your business anyway.

Awesome, awesome post!

[lilfaeriegirl.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why airlines don't do what theme parks do. When I went to Busch Gardens last year, they had seperate sections with larger seats to accomodate larger people on the rollercoasters. Instead of the airline having 3 seats to each row, make a couple in the back 2 seats each row for us.

[sarmonster.livejournal.com]

The Kevin Smith debaucle was about a man(Kevin Smith) who WASN'T too big for his seat, nor was the woman in his row, yet both were hassled by airline employees, and Smith was removed from his first flight because it was full and they couldn't sell him a second seat. The airline employees were extremely douchey in several instances of Smith's story and unnecessarily went after people, YET there wasn't a 'size' test they failed (there was a size test and they both passed), not was their pursuit consistent: Other fat people, larger than Smith, according to him, were left alone.

As far as people who ARE too big for their seat... How do we look at it?
One size does not fit all. Women and tall people have to pay more for clothes and shoes (if women want to wear clothes designed for their gender, anyway), larger people can't ride the kiddie rides, I know full grown women who can't go on certain amusement park rides because they're not tall enough. Red/green colorblind people can't play team lazertag. Granted, the latter examples are recreational and aren't transportation that we consider more or less necessary.

The bottom line on this issue is that people were harassed and removed from their seats for being too big when they weren't. There are no "You have to fit into an area this big to ride this plane" tests like there is for carry on luggage, if there were, I think (Possibly ironically) that this would be far more acceptable. 'I'm too big to use that kayak', 'that shirt is too small for me', 'I'm too big to play on the rides at Chuck-E-Cheese' FINE, we're OK with that, so "A single seat on Southwest Airlines is too small for me" would be OK IF THERE WERE A TEST that people had to fail before being harassed by airline employees about buying a second ticket, and if that test were as consistent as the one for your luggage (You know, the box you have to put your carry on in).

[dead-eifersucht.livejournal.com]

Nice post

[ogremarco.livejournal.com]

Peoplke don't need to go to theme parks to go about their lives, they do need to use the airlines, or at least they feel they do. Whenever a business figures out that people will use them because they have to, not because they enjoy the experience... well watch out, because it's gonna be a long shitty ride to the bottom of the barrel.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

No shit. I mean, at a size 22, I still fit in the seat with the armrests down and do not need a seat extender. Yet, I'm worried I'll get harassed.

I say have a row or two of Plus-size seats that cost a little more, and if no fat people take them, let other people enjoy the luxury.

I miss the days of half empty flights. One of the times I flew back from a family trip to Michigan, I got on the half full plane and after boarding, the flight attendants said, "Ok, we're only half full. Feel free to spread out."

I had a whole row, I put all the pillows behind me, kicked my feet up on the other seats, and studied for a midterm in comfort.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

Yeah, if you've got a six year old that big, the odds are good there's something else going on.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm really flattered to be compared with Ms. Wann in any light.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Thank you for reading!!!!

I just feel like so many of the arguments about FA, or about framing things like the "Obesity Crisis" always devolves into people yelling, "Why do you hate nutrition? Why do you hate exercise?" When that isn't what any (ok, in a nod to Rocza, the majority) of us are saying, it's fucking derailing, straw man bullshit.

[sirriamnis.livejournal.com]

This. Thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

This is just awesome, thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't find the post you were talking about in their search engine, do you mind linking?