Rape -v- Seduction
Aug. 14th, 2008 01:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
polimicksSo someone in my last post asked about my views on rape versus seduction. And while I think I know what they might be getting at, I have to say that they are pretty much NOT the same thing, even remotely.
Ok, if you read a lot of romance novels, or other genre novels that include sexy bits, you might get the impression that seduction is just coercion dressed up in flowers and silk sheets. It isn't. Not by a long shot. Those books are fantasy. Say it with me, 'FAAAANNNN-TAAAAA-SSSYYYYYYYY.'
The person went on to clarify that they meant "tricking" someone into bed, versus, say, physical coercion and how I felt about that.
Well, I'm kind of... I don't really know how to answer that. Because I don't think I've ever been tricked into sex per se. I mean, I've wound up having sex with people I didn't initially intend to sleep with, but there was no trickery involved. It was more a matter of they finally got tired of my having NO CLUE, and very bluntly propositioned me. And since I've always been game for a good roll in the hay... So I'm not entirely sure how one actually goes about "tricking" someone into bed. You ask, and they say yes or they say no. Where does the trickery come in?
I mean, I've read romance novels and watched Lifetime movies and after school specials on teen pregnancy, so I kind of intellectually get the concept. But the whole idea that someone could "trick" you into sleeping with them if you didn't want to, I don't get. I understand people who have a chemistry or pheromone that if you aren't with them you just don't find them the least little bit sexy, but when you're together... WOW!!! I've known a couple of guys like that.
Maybe it's because I have a traditionally "Guy" view of sex. I don't know.
Granted, I also think you should always be honest with your sexual partners about pretty much everything.
I don't know, maybe if you guys could give me some examples of being "tricked" into bed, I might be able to dissect them and build a case for or against. But it is so far outside the realm of my experience, that I just don't know what to say.
I guess misrepresenting your intentions towards the relationship would count as trickery. If you're telling someone you want to be with them forever to get them in the sack when you have no intent of sticking around for fifteen minutes after the deed, then I suppose, yeah, that is trickery. Not rape, definitely not rape, but, yes, unethical. And how many women does that shit actually work on? Fewer and fewer every day, I would hope, although the plethora of self-help books about such things does not give me hope.
So, do I think lying to someone about your future intentions and conning them into bed that way is rape? No.
Do I think it is at all ethical? No.
Do I think it is seduction? No.
And coercing someone into sex is also not seduction, I don't care how many flowers you buy, how silky the sheets are and how sexy you are. Coercion = Rape.
So, yeah, I guess that's where I stand. I hope this helps at least a little bit. If not, feel free to ask me more questions and I'll try to expand.
Ok, if you read a lot of romance novels, or other genre novels that include sexy bits, you might get the impression that seduction is just coercion dressed up in flowers and silk sheets. It isn't. Not by a long shot. Those books are fantasy. Say it with me, 'FAAAANNNN-TAAAAA-SSSYYYYYYYY.'
The person went on to clarify that they meant "tricking" someone into bed, versus, say, physical coercion and how I felt about that.
Well, I'm kind of... I don't really know how to answer that. Because I don't think I've ever been tricked into sex per se. I mean, I've wound up having sex with people I didn't initially intend to sleep with, but there was no trickery involved. It was more a matter of they finally got tired of my having NO CLUE, and very bluntly propositioned me. And since I've always been game for a good roll in the hay... So I'm not entirely sure how one actually goes about "tricking" someone into bed. You ask, and they say yes or they say no. Where does the trickery come in?
I mean, I've read romance novels and watched Lifetime movies and after school specials on teen pregnancy, so I kind of intellectually get the concept. But the whole idea that someone could "trick" you into sleeping with them if you didn't want to, I don't get. I understand people who have a chemistry or pheromone that if you aren't with them you just don't find them the least little bit sexy, but when you're together... WOW!!! I've known a couple of guys like that.
Maybe it's because I have a traditionally "Guy" view of sex. I don't know.
Granted, I also think you should always be honest with your sexual partners about pretty much everything.
I don't know, maybe if you guys could give me some examples of being "tricked" into bed, I might be able to dissect them and build a case for or against. But it is so far outside the realm of my experience, that I just don't know what to say.
I guess misrepresenting your intentions towards the relationship would count as trickery. If you're telling someone you want to be with them forever to get them in the sack when you have no intent of sticking around for fifteen minutes after the deed, then I suppose, yeah, that is trickery. Not rape, definitely not rape, but, yes, unethical. And how many women does that shit actually work on? Fewer and fewer every day, I would hope, although the plethora of self-help books about such things does not give me hope.
So, do I think lying to someone about your future intentions and conning them into bed that way is rape? No.
Do I think it is at all ethical? No.
Do I think it is seduction? No.
And coercing someone into sex is also not seduction, I don't care how many flowers you buy, how silky the sheets are and how sexy you are. Coercion = Rape.
So, yeah, I guess that's where I stand. I hope this helps at least a little bit. If not, feel free to ask me more questions and I'll try to expand.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Thinking on this more...
Date: 2008-08-14 11:01 pm (UTC)When I realized that guy had pulled me on his lap to fuck me (and honestly this only worked so well for him because he was THAT small that it didn't cause me pain) part of what ran through my head is that if I made a fuss -- which was unlikely because bringing more attention to myself was the last thing I wanted to do (we were in a much less populated room and I was blind folded - which was the only way my being nude worked much less anything else), I figured people might be less than sympathetic. I mean - I was naked in a private BDSM party - what did I expect. I dunno. Not that. I'd gone there in a sexy red dress. Sure it was a to the knee dress and I had pantyhose, and slimming briefs (a girdle really), a bra, and a hat with a veil but still... I let a stranger talk me into letting him restrain me and whip me when naked. As far as I was concerned I'd have been laughed at if I suddenly said I had an issue with sex. Looking back I now know this would not be the case. However right about then his partner came back and wanted to leave and was annoyed to find him engaged so she loudly snarked "She said she wasn't going to play much less have public sex!" I was mortified.
Then he left before I was dressed.
So I stood there feeling very lost and then I slowly gathered up my clothes and I got dressed. Then I helped clean up. I was very confused when I went home and then the endorphin crash happened. I still have a lot of shame issues around sex and at the time my brain screamed at me that I was a slut and deserved everything that happened.
But, no, it wasn't exactly rape. There was no screaming and fighting. I could have stopped it... That's the theory anyway.
Just like emotional abuse isn't really abuse... No I wasn't physically injured but emotionally - I went through all the stuff I've heard rape victims went through. This is part of why I support the CSPC and hope there is always a place like it around...