Rape -v- Seduction
Aug. 14th, 2008 01:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
polimicksSo someone in my last post asked about my views on rape versus seduction. And while I think I know what they might be getting at, I have to say that they are pretty much NOT the same thing, even remotely.
Ok, if you read a lot of romance novels, or other genre novels that include sexy bits, you might get the impression that seduction is just coercion dressed up in flowers and silk sheets. It isn't. Not by a long shot. Those books are fantasy. Say it with me, 'FAAAANNNN-TAAAAA-SSSYYYYYYYY.'
The person went on to clarify that they meant "tricking" someone into bed, versus, say, physical coercion and how I felt about that.
Well, I'm kind of... I don't really know how to answer that. Because I don't think I've ever been tricked into sex per se. I mean, I've wound up having sex with people I didn't initially intend to sleep with, but there was no trickery involved. It was more a matter of they finally got tired of my having NO CLUE, and very bluntly propositioned me. And since I've always been game for a good roll in the hay... So I'm not entirely sure how one actually goes about "tricking" someone into bed. You ask, and they say yes or they say no. Where does the trickery come in?
I mean, I've read romance novels and watched Lifetime movies and after school specials on teen pregnancy, so I kind of intellectually get the concept. But the whole idea that someone could "trick" you into sleeping with them if you didn't want to, I don't get. I understand people who have a chemistry or pheromone that if you aren't with them you just don't find them the least little bit sexy, but when you're together... WOW!!! I've known a couple of guys like that.
Maybe it's because I have a traditionally "Guy" view of sex. I don't know.
Granted, I also think you should always be honest with your sexual partners about pretty much everything.
I don't know, maybe if you guys could give me some examples of being "tricked" into bed, I might be able to dissect them and build a case for or against. But it is so far outside the realm of my experience, that I just don't know what to say.
I guess misrepresenting your intentions towards the relationship would count as trickery. If you're telling someone you want to be with them forever to get them in the sack when you have no intent of sticking around for fifteen minutes after the deed, then I suppose, yeah, that is trickery. Not rape, definitely not rape, but, yes, unethical. And how many women does that shit actually work on? Fewer and fewer every day, I would hope, although the plethora of self-help books about such things does not give me hope.
So, do I think lying to someone about your future intentions and conning them into bed that way is rape? No.
Do I think it is at all ethical? No.
Do I think it is seduction? No.
And coercing someone into sex is also not seduction, I don't care how many flowers you buy, how silky the sheets are and how sexy you are. Coercion = Rape.
So, yeah, I guess that's where I stand. I hope this helps at least a little bit. If not, feel free to ask me more questions and I'll try to expand.
Ok, if you read a lot of romance novels, or other genre novels that include sexy bits, you might get the impression that seduction is just coercion dressed up in flowers and silk sheets. It isn't. Not by a long shot. Those books are fantasy. Say it with me, 'FAAAANNNN-TAAAAA-SSSYYYYYYYY.'
The person went on to clarify that they meant "tricking" someone into bed, versus, say, physical coercion and how I felt about that.
Well, I'm kind of... I don't really know how to answer that. Because I don't think I've ever been tricked into sex per se. I mean, I've wound up having sex with people I didn't initially intend to sleep with, but there was no trickery involved. It was more a matter of they finally got tired of my having NO CLUE, and very bluntly propositioned me. And since I've always been game for a good roll in the hay... So I'm not entirely sure how one actually goes about "tricking" someone into bed. You ask, and they say yes or they say no. Where does the trickery come in?
I mean, I've read romance novels and watched Lifetime movies and after school specials on teen pregnancy, so I kind of intellectually get the concept. But the whole idea that someone could "trick" you into sleeping with them if you didn't want to, I don't get. I understand people who have a chemistry or pheromone that if you aren't with them you just don't find them the least little bit sexy, but when you're together... WOW!!! I've known a couple of guys like that.
Maybe it's because I have a traditionally "Guy" view of sex. I don't know.
Granted, I also think you should always be honest with your sexual partners about pretty much everything.
I don't know, maybe if you guys could give me some examples of being "tricked" into bed, I might be able to dissect them and build a case for or against. But it is so far outside the realm of my experience, that I just don't know what to say.
I guess misrepresenting your intentions towards the relationship would count as trickery. If you're telling someone you want to be with them forever to get them in the sack when you have no intent of sticking around for fifteen minutes after the deed, then I suppose, yeah, that is trickery. Not rape, definitely not rape, but, yes, unethical. And how many women does that shit actually work on? Fewer and fewer every day, I would hope, although the plethora of self-help books about such things does not give me hope.
So, do I think lying to someone about your future intentions and conning them into bed that way is rape? No.
Do I think it is at all ethical? No.
Do I think it is seduction? No.
And coercing someone into sex is also not seduction, I don't care how many flowers you buy, how silky the sheets are and how sexy you are. Coercion = Rape.
So, yeah, I guess that's where I stand. I hope this helps at least a little bit. If not, feel free to ask me more questions and I'll try to expand.
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no subject
Date: 2008-08-15 01:09 am (UTC)I was thinking of stuff like Cyrano de Bergerac, not that I've ever seen it. We're talking totally pop culture education here. Imagine if the woman had slept with the hunk, not knowing she was falling in love with the man with the big nose. She finds out later, and is horrified. So, that was where my question started out.
I had one other question to ask of you. Do you see any useful difference between molestation and rape? Obviously there's molestation without penetration, but there's are times when I've heard molestation or pederasty used to describe what I'd call a rape case.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-15 01:46 am (UTC)I do not, to the best of my knowledge know anyone who has been Cyrano-ed.
As for "pederasty" and "molestation." They're just words to candycoat child rape. Now, pederasty is a very specific form of child rape, however, the word has lost much of it's sting over time because of over and misuse.
Molestation just doesn't sound as bad as rape, does it? I mean, the guy just molested his daughter, it's not like he forced a child to perform a sexual act... Oh, wait... he did.
Even if the asshole doesn't put his dick in, (or if the asshole's a woman, vice versa) doesn't make it not rape.