Why do I even have to deal with this bullshit?

[polimicks]

Ok, so in the last post I had comments from people I like, and generally respect. Snide comments about how I'm taking a "really controversial" stance by saying that rape is wrong. And also stating that there's no "pro-rape lobby."

I'm glad that you're both intelligent and informed enough to realize that rape is wrong. However, the way rape victims are treated by the police, by the courts and the press demonstrates over and over and over, that not everyone realizes this.

Many people believe that when women are raped, they must have done something to deserve it, including the women themselves. Men who rape evolve amazing mental defenses to be able to deny the reality that they are indeed rapists.

Women who try to press rape charges are still frequently asked by the police if they're sure they "want to ruin this young man's life like that." If that isn't pro-rape, I don't know what is.

Women are interrogated about where they were, if they knew their attacker, what they were wearing, what they were doing... Any time a woman tries to report the rape by someone of a "higher" social status she is immediately accused of being a gold-digger, of trying to ruin a "good man," of having an agenda. When a woman accuses any man, her entire life is turned upside down, every part of it is scrutinized as if she were the accused rather than her rapist.

And if anyone says a damn thing about false rape reporting after reading my post on it, I will personally skin you and then give you your own ass as a hat.

And you know, this is one thing that really pisses me off. People consistently, when blaming women for their own rapes, make the analogy of a guy walking down a bad street wearing expensive clothes with money hanging out of his pockets. There are two ways that analogy breaks down:
1. Someone violating a woman's body with rape is not the same as having something external to your being like money or a watch stolen.
2. Even if the guy was drunk and walking down a bad street, no one is going to ask him if he's sure he wants to ruin the mugger's life by pressing charges. Charges will be pressed in far better than half of all reported muggings. And no one is going to try to defend the mugger by saying the guy asked for it. No one. They may think he's been a fool, but everyone knows that stealing is a crime and that the guy who ripped him off broke the law. It doesn't work that way with rape. Ever. Not even with children.

That is why suggesting that rapists be held accountable and that rapists be charged IS controversial. It's why demanding that rapists DO jail time is controversial. And further, if you're so bothered by these posts, don't fucking read them.

Comments

[lisatheriveter.livejournal.com]

Amen, sister!

I have long held the opinion that rape and sexual assault charges should be done away with. I would like to see rape prosecuted simply as assault. I think that making the distinction that the manner of the assault was sexual allows for treating rape, and thus rape victims, as a lesser sort of crime, and leads to the kind of stigmatizing we see so often. The existence of sexual predator laws and identification rolls complicates the issue of prosecuting these crimes to the extent that even those victims who are willing to go to the police face enormous pressure to drop the charges. And seriously? Has there ever been a case where a perpetrator's appearance on a sexual predator roster actually prevented a crime?

I'm glad you're writing these posts, and that reading and commenting on them has made me think about my own experience with rape and how it has affected me. It's been hard - I've had some unexpectedly emotional reactions to my lovers, and had to have the always uncomfortable conversation of disclosing my history with rape. But I think that's been good for me, and good for my lovers. Thanks for reminding me to think about this, and to talk about it. One of the nicest things about revisiting the past is realizing how far I've come, and that's a good feeling.

[mojrim.livejournal.com]

I think it would have exactly the opposite effect of what you want to see. While I understand that many women have had these kinds of experiences with rape reporting, I would be very surprised to see that the majority do. Under WA law, rape in the 1st and 2nd degree is a class A felony, the same as 1st degree assault and homicide. Additionally, the law prohibits those convicted of rape/1st from being parolled. Further, the physical harm required to meet a assault/1st charge is far less than required to meet either class of rape.

Turn the comparison a little for a masculine analogy. Instead of comparing rape the mugging, compare it to an assault. Imagine two guys get into a fight outside a bar at about midnight, and one ends up in the ER. The police are going to grill the living shit out of him about his words and actions leading up to the fight, not because they want to get the other guy freed, but because it will be hotly contested. They are grilling the other guy just as hard. That's how the system works, and the court will not give the prosecution any breaks because the victim was too distraught to answer from her bed in the ER.

While I understand that many women have felt stigmatized in rape reporting, I would bet that there are far more who have not. The kinds of questions are the same kind the police ask anyone who is going into a contentious field of prosecution. The police ask these questions because the prosecutor has to know what the ground looks like because the defense attorney is going to use whatever they can get their hands on because that's what we pay lawyers to do.

[kaligrrrl.livejournal.com]

have you done any research about rape victim's experiences reporting rapes or did you just pull that out of your ass?

have you been raped and reported it? have you talked to rape victims?
have you had any experience as a victim in the criminal justice system?

I have and what you've said here is bullshit.

and your analogy is false. a fight between two people involves two potential or actual perpatrators, hence the need to interogate both parties.
a rape involves a perpatrator and a victim and therefore there's no need to interogate the victim like a suspect.

your very attitude here--rape is a contentious crime, the victim should be grilled while distraught in her hospital bed etc.--are a prefect example of what polimicks is talking about.

[mojrim.livejournal.com]

1. Rape victims are not interrogated anything like suspects. This I can say with a large degree of assurance.

2. It is contentious because it will be hotly contested in any available gray area. This is a fact, not ameniable to anyone's preferences in the matter.

3. The adversarial legal system, combined with western principles of justice, guarentees that the defense is granted a great deal of liberty in court.

4. Couda, shouda, and woulda are the most worthless words in English. Interviewing a victim in the ER is not nice, but it's what we have without a thorough overhall of the Western justice system.

5. With the basic tree jumper the crime resembles mugging; but that's, what, 30% of cases? With the other 70% there is plenty of room for the defense to maneuver. Let's start with "was anyone drinking?"

6. Every crime report involves re-living the event; we have a specific interview techniqe to make it more so. The further the case is taken the more times the event must be re-lived. Stopping this bit of ugliness requiress, again, re-wiring the Western system of justice.

Yes, it's ugly. No, that ugliness is not soley the product of prejudice. And no, there's almost nothing for it.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Drinking is not an excuse for bad behavior.

And no, actually, you can't say that with any degree of assurance, because neither have you been a cop or a rape victim, to the best of my knowledge.

[mojrim.livejournal.com]

1. It's not an excuse, but right or wrong, altered mental state alters the game. And that's just the start.

2. No, but I've had a few in my ambulance, and I've guided more than my share to the reporting process.

[sheyeblaze.livejournal.com]

While I understand that many women have felt stigmatized in rape reporting, I would bet that there are far more who have not.

Um, no. I really and truly doubt that. I am just about the only person I know that wasn't stigmatized by the process and that only because I was prepared for it, mentally prepared myself *AND* I had a truly awesome support system through it. But, I doubt that anyone else would not have been traumatized by it. It was brutal and it was vicious and it proved to me that "well-meaning" pro-rape sentiment is still alive and well.