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polimicksOk, in light of the whole Kevin Smith debacle, as well as a little tiff I got involved with on Pandagon, I would like to say something.
Ahem.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against better diets (as in way of eating as a whole) for everyone, including increasing access to healthier and less processed foods.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against exercise, or that one thinks kids getting exercise is a bad thing.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that I think you need to find me fuckable, or even likable. I probably don't like you, either.
What Fat Acceptance means is that you have to treat me like a human being, with courtesy and observing the bounds of civil interaction. That's it.
No one in Fat Acceptance land is advocating that everyone sit on their ass in front of the tv and mainline lard and cornstarch, washing it down with Jolt cola.
No one in Fat Acceptance land says kids shouldn't go outside and play.
NO ONE. Hear that, douchefucking assheads?
What people in Fat Acceptance land are saying is that YOU don't know why someone is fat just by looking at them. You don't. You don't know if they're on meds, if they fucked up their joints running triathalons and hold a world record from before their joints went south, or if they really do mainline jelly bellies while snorting pure confectioner's sugar, and throwing darts at pictures of that asshole Jillian Michaels. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
So, do me a favor and quit pretending you do. Ok, Karnack?
And while we're at it, if airlines want to throw fat people off for impinging on other passengers' space, and comfort, I have an additional list:
People who wear cheap perfume, and too much of it (guys, too)
Men who sprawl and take up all your leg room
People who won't shut the fuck up about their sports team/children/religion/surgery/politics
Screaming children
People with headphones so loud I can hear them over my own.
Seatkickers
People who lay their seat back without asking you if it's ok and crush you and your laptop
Well, none of that is a risk to safety, you say snidely... fat people could get stuck... Oh, spare me. I have yet to get stuck anywhere and I have a huge fat ass.
But the perfume people are a risk to safety. I happen to be incredibly allergic to a lot of perfumes, as in it starts with sneezing and watery eyes, then moves on to severe asthma attacks. If I can't get to my inhaler because some asshole has his seat down in front of me and the guy next to me is sprawled into my space... THEN it is a safety fucking issue and a whole lot more likely to cause issues than my fat would in the unlikely event we were to plummet to earth like a fucking stone. Got that?
So, here's the deal. You pretend you think we're people, and I'll pretend that you guys who sit with your legs all splayed really "need" to.* *wink wink*
Oh, and I have another request. If my fat ass is out there working out, walking, you know all that shit you guys keep telling me I need to do, shut the fuck up. If the goal were really to get us exercising, then my sister wouldn't have had that one asshead follow her around at the gym and tell her she didn't belong there every time she went. I also wouldn't have had to drop a free weight on the foot of some asshole who called me a whale (fat people, we're so weak and clumsy, you know).
There are worse things in life than you having to see or even, heavens forfend, brush up against my fat. Like missing your mother's dying moments as nearly happened with Kate Harding's sister, or not being able to go to a friend or family member's wedding, or being humiliated in front of a plane load of people.
Trust me, fat shaming doesn't work. If it did, we'd all be skinny. But it doesn't. And you know what? It doesn't cost you shit to be polite.
Besides, if sitting next to fat me really is a problem, next time YOU volunteer to sit between the screaming toddler and the evangelical.
*Someone somewhere referred to "Phantom Gigantic Schlong Syndrome," which does not happen only on planes, but also on buses, and pisses me off there, too.
Ahem.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against better diets (as in way of eating as a whole) for everyone, including increasing access to healthier and less processed foods.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that one is against exercise, or that one thinks kids getting exercise is a bad thing.
Fat Acceptance does NOT mean that I think you need to find me fuckable, or even likable. I probably don't like you, either.
What Fat Acceptance means is that you have to treat me like a human being, with courtesy and observing the bounds of civil interaction. That's it.
No one in Fat Acceptance land is advocating that everyone sit on their ass in front of the tv and mainline lard and cornstarch, washing it down with Jolt cola.
No one in Fat Acceptance land says kids shouldn't go outside and play.
NO ONE. Hear that, douchefucking assheads?
What people in Fat Acceptance land are saying is that YOU don't know why someone is fat just by looking at them. You don't. You don't know if they're on meds, if they fucked up their joints running triathalons and hold a world record from before their joints went south, or if they really do mainline jelly bellies while snorting pure confectioner's sugar, and throwing darts at pictures of that asshole Jillian Michaels. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
So, do me a favor and quit pretending you do. Ok, Karnack?
And while we're at it, if airlines want to throw fat people off for impinging on other passengers' space, and comfort, I have an additional list:
People who wear cheap perfume, and too much of it (guys, too)
Men who sprawl and take up all your leg room
People who won't shut the fuck up about their sports team/children/religion/surgery/politics
Screaming children
People with headphones so loud I can hear them over my own.
Seatkickers
People who lay their seat back without asking you if it's ok and crush you and your laptop
Well, none of that is a risk to safety, you say snidely... fat people could get stuck... Oh, spare me. I have yet to get stuck anywhere and I have a huge fat ass.
But the perfume people are a risk to safety. I happen to be incredibly allergic to a lot of perfumes, as in it starts with sneezing and watery eyes, then moves on to severe asthma attacks. If I can't get to my inhaler because some asshole has his seat down in front of me and the guy next to me is sprawled into my space... THEN it is a safety fucking issue and a whole lot more likely to cause issues than my fat would in the unlikely event we were to plummet to earth like a fucking stone. Got that?
So, here's the deal. You pretend you think we're people, and I'll pretend that you guys who sit with your legs all splayed really "need" to.* *wink wink*
Oh, and I have another request. If my fat ass is out there working out, walking, you know all that shit you guys keep telling me I need to do, shut the fuck up. If the goal were really to get us exercising, then my sister wouldn't have had that one asshead follow her around at the gym and tell her she didn't belong there every time she went. I also wouldn't have had to drop a free weight on the foot of some asshole who called me a whale (fat people, we're so weak and clumsy, you know).
There are worse things in life than you having to see or even, heavens forfend, brush up against my fat. Like missing your mother's dying moments as nearly happened with Kate Harding's sister, or not being able to go to a friend or family member's wedding, or being humiliated in front of a plane load of people.
Trust me, fat shaming doesn't work. If it did, we'd all be skinny. But it doesn't. And you know what? It doesn't cost you shit to be polite.
Besides, if sitting next to fat me really is a problem, next time YOU volunteer to sit between the screaming toddler and the evangelical.
*Someone somewhere referred to "Phantom Gigantic Schlong Syndrome," which does not happen only on planes, but also on buses, and pisses me off there, too.
An appeal from a borderline thin (borderline fat) girl
Date: 2010-03-04 04:34 pm (UTC)However, you must know that you are limiting yourself to preaching to the choir--people who either share your feelings or who already accept the legitimacy of your feelings. And if what you want to do is vent and/or touch a chord with your team, this post is great.
It does seem that you are reaching a broader audience, though--I came here through stumbleupon--and you should know that you might not be making the most of the opportunity. There will always be those thoughtless people who hide behind the anonymity of the internet to spew hate; you don't owe them anything. (They are, as you say, assheads.) BUT there are also a lot of people who are still working out their feelings about FA or who haven't heard of it before. If you alienate them, you lose allies. (They are not ALL assheads.)
It's like feminism: I think women--especially certain women--are justified in expressing anger toward men. Getting pissed off is probably a necessary first step. But I think it serves the feminist cause better to frame misogyny as a gender problem that affects ALL people negatively, with some bearing more of the brunt than others. The feminist vision won't be truly realized until there is a constructive place for all kinds of women, as well as for men, in it. (I could make a similar case about racial, religious, or ethnic rights movements.)
FA addresses a "social body" problem that affects fat people most strongly, but that does affect everyone negatively. (It is even harmful to the perpetrators of hate.) FA will have more success if you can make people understand that the socially coercive attitude about people's bodies is not just YOUR problem, but that it is everyone's. (You demonstrate a broader awareness of this when you invoke the quote, "Being pretty is not the price we should pay for occupying the space marked 'female.'") Everyone feels subject to generally unrealistic standards, feels anxiety about them, and is punished for the degree to which they deviate from them. You can gain allies by appealing to that common ground. (The haters are mostly just trying to distance themselves from you so that they don't have to face the fact that they are subject to the same pressure.)
So you know where I am coming from: I feel as though I have a personal interest in FA, even though I am not unusually big by American standards. I am an hourglass size 10/12, and most people seem to think I have a pleasant face and appealing style. So I do not know what it is like to be explicitly and regularly shamed for my appearance, and I am so sorry that you have had this experience. Yet, I have encountered men (and frat boys) who thought it was their right to critique my body; I have been embarrassed in clothing boutiques that only carry up to a size 8 (the norm in my college town); I feel anxious when I go to the gym... Basically, I, like most people, know what it is like to deviate from the "ideal." And, more specifically, I know how it feels to know that I have a social interest in being thinner. Yet I have felt rather excluded from the FA community, which I think has the potential to be more than JUST a support group for an exclusive end of the size spectrum. If it can avoid "othering" receptive people (yes, like me), perhaps FA could really be a force for social, and not only self-, acceptance?
*Shea
http://rayshea.blogspot.com/
Re: An appeal from a borderline thin (borderline fat) girl
Date: 2010-03-04 05:24 pm (UTC)I've already received a scolding from my girlfriend for using Fat Acceptance instead of Size Acceptance, and she's right.
But I would like to bring your attention to the fact that this rant is response to two very specific incidents:
1. The Kevin Smith Debacle
2. An argument I was having on Pandagon where I was explicitly told no matter what I said, I was advocating that people drink pure High Fructose Corn Syrup, eat lard (ok, I'm totally paraphrasing).
As I was responding to those incidents, which I mention in the first line, this post was not meant to really be FA 101 or to win hearts and minds. This was me blowing off a bunch of frustration at situations I couldn't do anything else about.
The problem with the folks telling me to mind my tone, or to not swear, is that the tone argument is a common derailing tactic used to silence people (primarily women and minorities). It's also completely false, anyone who is going to quit listening to me because I said "fuck" is just pleased to have found a handy excuse to blow me off, instead of having to do the hard work of trying to refute points that really they can't.
Also, you'll note I don't knock skinny people in this rant, nor in any of my rants of the last couple of years (if you look far enough back, you probably will catch me doing some of that, but as you said, it's a stage of anger). "Douchefucking assheads" does not refer to skinny or thin people. It refers to people who are douchefucking assheads regardless of size, who give me shit for going to the gym, who think it's funny to snicker at me stretching at the gym, who think fat people should wall themselves away from everything, who secretly want to fuck me but would never be seen in public with me... I've been fat shamed by fat and thin alike. Fat girls are sometimes the worst. No, I take that back: Fat GUYS are the worst for fat shaming women.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here regarding the tone argument, because the rest of what you've written here seems very heartfelt, much more so than the other people calling me out for swearing. I've been blogging here in one form or another for a decade (not under this name, this name's only a couple of years old), and I've developed a pretty highly tuned bullshit detector for those using logical fallacies and other derailing tactics, so if I respond with some hostility to someone using a derailing tactic, it's generally because I've recognized it as such and recognize that I can be as calm, reasoned and rational as it is possible for me to be, and bury them in citations, and they'll still tell me I'm mean, wrong, stupid, oh, and fat... Sigh.
Shorter: I think you're being genuine, I appreciate your concern. But I do know what I'm doing, and I honestly never intended for this rant to reach the audience it did, I was blowing off steam and nothing else.
Re: An appeal from a borderline thin (borderline fat) girl
Date: 2010-03-04 07:13 pm (UTC)Re: An appeal from a borderline thin (borderline fat) girl
Date: 2010-03-04 07:16 pm (UTC)Thanks again for your thoughtful comments.