For the Guys. False Rape Accusations: Discuss

[polimicks]

zabieru asked me if I'd be willing to host a discussion amongst the guys on their take on the "Epidemic" of false rape accusations that gets trotted out every time I, or any other woman, starts to talk about rape.

Yes, I know, I'm not so good at reining in the bias about this topic.

So, I'll be turning this over to the guys. I will not edit. I will not delete unless the venom and name-calling get out of hand. I will let the guys have this discussion, and urge the girls to let them have it as well. If you fear it will be too triggering, don't read it.

This post is ALL about the comments, so it's in their hands.

Comments

[falserapeguy.livejournal.com]

I suspect mine is the only Web site devoted exclusively to false rape claims. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/ Let me suggest something that should not be controversial: rape and false rape claims are apples and kiwis. Persons who try to minimize the seriousness of rape by changing the subject to false rape claims are at the very least insensitive. By the same token, when someone who wants to discuss false rape claims in a serious manner, it is not appropriate to change the subject to "underreporting" of actual rape or the "fact" that only two percent of rape claims are false in an attempt to minimize my points. Men and boys have been sent away to prison for years on the basis of false and wrongful rape claims. They've been beaten and killed, they've lost their wives, girlfriends and businesses. It is possible, and not intellectually dishonest, to support victims of both crimes and to discuss ways of eradicating both without "selling out" victims of either. One who attempts to discuss false rape claims in a serious manner, divorced from attempts to minimize the seriousness of rape, should not be treated as a misogynist or rape "denialist." False rape claims do grave damage to actual rape victims and pretending they don't exist or that they are a "myth" only lessens the credibility of the speaker.

And there is, after all, an objective truth out there -- elusive as the numbers are, and discussion of it shouldn't be verboten. Sadly, most people who discuss these issues are uninformed and are repeating a political spin when they posit outrageous numbers. In "Until Proven Innocent," the widely praised (praised even by the New York Times, which the book skewers) and painstaking study of the Duke Lacrosse case, Stuart Taylor and Professor KC Johnson summarized all of the major studies dealing with false claims of sexual assault and explained that the exact number of false claims is elusive but "[t]he standard assertion by feminists that only 2 percent" or sexual assault claims "are false, which traces to Susan Brownmiller's 1975 book "Against Our Will," is without empirical foundation and belied by a wealth of empirical data. These data suggest that at least 9 percent and probably closer to half" of all sexual assault claims "are false . . . ." (Page 374.)

Now that's a hell of a lot more honest than the vast majority of persons who write about this issue. Many leftwing legal scholars repeat the two percent claim but -- and I'm going to say this because it's factual -- that number has been thoroughly debunked. Here's a serious study tracing the two percent number to it's origins -- and proving it's not at all reliable -- not in the least: http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v33-issue3/greer.pdf Many MRAs insist it's 90 percent, which is also absurd on its face. In addition, FBI statistics show that false reporting of sexual assault is fourfold greater than the average for all crimes. The Politics of Sexuality, Barry M. Dank, Editor in Chief, Vol. 3 at 36, n. 8.

There are some important points worthy of discussion. I want to discuss it because I've seen the lives of men and boys ruined by false claims, and I think we should consider allowing them to retain their anonymity (just as rape accusers are anonymous) until they are charged at least. Rape claims are capable of destroying lives and reputations more than any other crime -- a mere claim that a kid raped a young woman shouldn't be sufficient to have his name splashed all over the newspaper for the world to titilate to his humiliation -- or worse, have him beaten, spat on and killed (all these things have happened -- check my Web site). And I want the sentences to be tougher for false accusers who don't recant early in order to deter other false accusers. If a false accuser sends a man or boy to jail for several years and her lie is only discovered later, why should she be immune from prosecution because the statute of limitations has expired? That has happened because the statute of limitations is typically very short for this crime. But we can't discuss these issues when every time they are brought up, we are accused of hating women, or our concerns are met with a dismissive reference to underreporting of actual rapes.

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

Actually, the figure I usually cite is the 8% for unfounded rape accusations given by the FBI in their 1997 report on crime statistics. There's a link in the first "Rape Myth" post, and in the comments on a later post someone else posted several links about how that data was interpreted.

The actual Myth I was debunking on this one is that women lie about rape all the time.

I'll have to read that article by Taylor and Johnson, because "at least 9% and probably closer to half" is one hell of a leap.

I've never denied that false accusations happen, I do deny that they happen all the time.

polimicks

[falserapeguy.livejournal.com]

And I agree false claims don't happen all the time. Are you familiar with Professor Kanin's study? He is otherwise a feminist hero but his is the only serious study ever done of this phenomenon -- in his study he found 41% of rape claims not just false but actually recanted. And yes, nine to closer to 50% is a big gap -- but that just shows the author's honesty. All due respect but when you say 8% -- you have no idea. No one is able to pinpoint it with that degree of precision. THAT is why "Until Proven Innocent" gets it right. The point is, it is not uncommon. So why must we insist on minimizing it instead of examining how to reduce such false claims, and how to HELP the victims of false claims.

That last part -- helping the victims of false claims -- is something that self-proclaimed feminists routinely dismiss by insisting "hey, it's not a real problem." With all due respect.

Re: polimicks

[falserapeguy.livejournal.com]

P.S. Respectfully, the alleged "myth" that everyone thinks women always lie about rape is a straw man used by feminists to raise awareness about rape and to minimize false rape claims. No reasonable person believes that all women lie about rape in this day and age. Perhaps at one time in the past, not today. In fact, the opposite is far closer to the truth about what people believe. How to test it? Any time a woman claims she was raped, even the news media implicitly believes her -- and the guy's name is splashed all over the newspaper for world to titilate to his humiliation. Check out my Web site and see the harm that is inflicted on men and boys on the basis of a claim that turns out to be false. They've been beaten and killed (honestly -- killed), they've lost their wives, girlfriends and businesses because of false rape claims -- all because the accuser is automatically believed, and the guy's reputation is pretty much destroyed. Some guys are forced to move away (even when it's proven the claim was false).

Yet to raise awareness about rape, feminists keep trotting out this manufacturered "myth" that everyone thinks all women lie about rape. It is a myth that people actually believe THAT.

Re: polimicks

[polimicks.livejournal.com]

I'll check out Kanin, but you do realize that an awful lot of recanting happens because women (and men) are afraid of who they are accusing, or the accused friends and family... Or just don't want to go through the trial and all the horrible crap that goes with it.

It really isn't as simple as "Oh, she recanted, it obviously isn't true."

Re: polimicks

[falserapeguy.livejournal.com]

Prof. Kanin specifically considered the recanting issue and determined it was not a problem. And check my Web site -- recantations almost always occur in the face of overwhelming evidence (no, not lie detector evidence) that a lie has been told. But virtually NO false rape claims are classified as "false" without it, so the odds are good that there are many more false claims than recantations. A recantation is generally the inevitable confession after the accuser's story has completely fallen apart.

This is not directed at you because you seem open-minded, but isn't it amusing that feminists claim women don't lie about rape -- EXCEPT when it comes to recanting. And what of the obvious corollary: Men accused of rape who claim the woman made a false report invariably lie, and men accused of rape who confess to it invariably are telling the truth.

Did you get that? Any time someone speaks in a manner intended to send a male to prison for a rape accusation, they are telling the truth. Any time someone speaks in a manner intended to keep a male out of prison for an alleged rape, that is a lie.